导语：2020年可以说是DeFi的元年。DeFi作为加密世界一个全新的领域，也在向世界展示它独有的魅力。虽然对于现在的DeFi还处于早期，但是它具有传统金融所不具有的特性无须许可、可组合性等，让人们对于DeFi的发展保持着火热的情绪和更高的期待。

2020困难与挑战的一年，未来会有无数人涌入DeFi，面对新金融、面对新机遇，DeFi的大幕正在徐徐拉开，或许你需要反问一下自己，你真的了解DeFi吗？

9月9日晚19：00，Bzone B·Talk 「穿越变局」第十一期《新金融 新机遇，DeFi大热来袭》，由Bzone联合创始人Allen专访ZILD CEO Alex Nikolaev和ZILD GENERAL ADVISER ALEX Egorov，近距离了解他们对于DeFi的认知和对未来的畅想。

B·Talk专访时刻

ALLEN：Welcome to the eleventh interview of B·Talk "Through Change". The AMA of this series of events was initiated by Bzone. I am Allen ，co-founder of Bzone，also is the host of this AMA event, and I am very fortunate to have Alex as a guest today.

欢迎来到B-Talk "穿越改变 "的第十一期访谈。这个系列活动的AMA由Bzone发起。我是Allen，是Bzone的联合创始人，也是本次AMA活动的主持人，今天非常有幸邀请到Alex做客。

ALLEN：Alex, Could you pls introduce Zild to all of us first?

Alex请首先给大家简单介绍一下Zild。

Alex Nikolaev：ZILD.finance is a new DeFi protocol, for the decentralized financial operations, where anyone and everyone can lend their crypto and get a yield on it. Also our users can borrow cryptocurrencies without any centralized custodian.

ZILD是一个去中心化金融操作的协议，任何人和每个人都可以借出自己的加密货币并获得收益，而且我们的用户也可以直接在协议上借用货币，不需要任何中心化的保管。

ALEX Egorov：What's unique about our concept - is that we aim to provide the protocol, which will enable borrowing without collateral, using special reputation tokens, embedded in the protocol.

我们的概念的独特之处在于-我们旨在提供一个协议，该协议将使用协议中嵌入的特殊信誉令牌来实现无抵押借款。

Alex Nikolaev：Also the architecture of our token is pretty specific: We have 3 main types of tokens in our ecosystem: X, Y and Z tokens.

此外，令牌的架构非常特别：生态系统中有3种主要令牌：X，Y和Z令牌。

Z - Zild tokens are the major project’s tokens. They are used for Yield farming — getting rewards for the provision of liquidity or borrowings.

Z - Zild代币是项目的主要代币。它们用于挖矿收益--通过提供流动资金或借款获得奖励。

Then there’s Y tokens — they are a kind of a bond or a promissory note - used for the record of transactions and they get burned after the transaction closes.

还有Y代币--是一种债券或承兑汇票--用于交易记录，交易结束后会被燃烧掉。

And finally there’s X tokens — it’s the reputation token. Inside the Defi ecosystem, you want to build your reputation, because it will allow you to borrow at a more favorable rate, reduce the collateral and get more rewards in Z-tokens.

最后是X代币--它是信誉代币。在Defi生态系统里面，你要建立自己的信誉，因为它可以让你以更优惠的利率借款，减少抵押物，并获得更多的Z代币奖励。

So we are building the protocol for the provision of uncollateralized loans, with no central authority, globally - from anywheere in the world, with no discrimination!as we are saying inside our team: ZILD creates Yield for the generation Z!So in a nutshell - that's what ZILD is.

所以，我们正在建立协议是一种提供无抵押贷款，没有中心化的权利，没有歧视，在世界任何地方，我们站在 "代码即法律 "的原则上。正如我们在团队内部所说：ZILD为Z代创造收益！简而言之-这就是ZILD。

ALLEN：Thanks Alex to introduce ZILD.I want to ask a question temporarily，As we know ZILD launched in Hoo exchange at 15:00.So far, the price increase has maintained at $26 and the buying has been strong.First of all, I would like to express my congratulations.

谢谢Alex介绍ZILD。我想临时问一个问题，我们知道ZILD是在15:00在HOO交易所上线的。到目前为止，价格涨幅维持在26元，买盘强劲，我在此表示祝贺。

ALLEN：Besides, I would like to know that except Uniswap as the first Dex , The Hoo is the first decentralized exchange.Why did you choose the Hoo ？

另外，我想知道除了去中心化交易所Uniswap，Hoo是第一个中心化交易所首发上线，你为什么选择Hoo？

Alex Nikolaev：We have been considering several top exchanges for the listing. But one of the top priority criterion for us was the involvement in DeFi.

我们一直在考虑上市的几家顶级交易所.但是对我们来说，最重要的标准之一就是参与DeFi。

ALEX Egorov：we appreciate the hard work and efficiency of their management.

我们感谢他们的辛勤工作和高效的管理。

we share common values, and feel that they are a good global partner, which is well known, provides great service, and is building very robust product.Also, in Moscow the blockchain community follows Hoo, and values the projects which list their tokens on it.

我们有着共同的价值观，并认为他们是非常棒的全球合作伙伴，众所周知，HOO一直提供优质的服务，并且正在开发非常优秀的产品。此外，在莫斯科的区块链社区一直在关注着虎符，并认为他们交易所的项目都是很有价值的.

ALLEN：Since the beginning of this year, DeFi has been under the spotlight in the crypto industry.

今年年初以来，DeFi在加密行业备受关注。

ALEX Egorov：Yes - finally the trend of DeFi takes off.

是的，DeFi的波动很是火爆。

ALLEN：we know zild already launched on Uniswap.How do you think the pros and cons of DeFi projects like Compound、Uniswap?

我们知道zild已经上线了Uniswap.您如何看待Compound、Uniswap等DeFi项目的利弊？

ALEX Egorov: these two are top league!! since we've launched on UniSwap - we know it quite closely.

这两个是顶级交易平台。自从我们在UniSwap上启动以来，我们对此非常了解.

Alex Nikolaev：Uniswap - they are building the technology for the decentralized exchange.as you know ,They are doing a great job, they are one of the best, if not the best DEX out there.

They are famous for their good UI, it's a very rare thing in the current DeFi space.Pretty much everyone can start using UniSwap with their very uncluttered and simple interface.

Uniswap-他们正在建立一家去中心化交易所，他们做得很好，是最好的DEX之一。他们以非常优秀的用户操作而闻名，这在当前的DeFi领域中非常罕见。几乎每个人都可以非常简单的使用Uniswap。

They would be even more valuable if they could figure out how to produce synthetics from the fiat in a much easier way, than it is now, and how to attract into the Defi universe the people who don’t know anything about cryptocurrency, which is the other 95% of the market.

That would be pretty ambitious .We are looking forward to it!

如果他们能想出如何用比现在更简单的方式去链接法币，以及如何将那些对加密货币一无所知的人，也就是市场上另外95%的人带领到Defi领域，Uniswap将会更加成功。那那会更加令人激动,我们期待着它！

Let me tell about Compound.It's one of my favourites! Compound provides for the decentralized deposits and loans.These two operations are a essence of the commercial banking.So that's why they are so successful - they are solving the problem that very many people have.

让我来谈谈Comp。它是我最喜欢之一！Compound是提供去中心化的存款和贷款。这两个是商业银行业务的核心。这就是他们如此成功的原因，他们正在解决很多人都遇到的问题。

ALEX Egorov:Compound is a very high quality product, which is also confirmed by the fact that it was invested by CoinBase exchange and the smartest venture capital investors in the world, in by opinion, - “Andreessen Horowitz” VC firm.

Comp是一个非常高质量的产品，这也得到了以下事实的证实：Comp是由CoinBase交易所和世界上最顶尖的风险投资本投资的 ——“ Andreessen Horowitz”风险投资公司。

The thing that can make Compound even better - is if they solve how to make the under-collateralized loans, or even non-collateralized loans in the DeFi space.

如果Compound解决了如何在DeFi领域中进行抵押不足的贷款甚至是非抵押贷款，这会使Compound变得更好。

Using the cryptocurrency as collateral should be replaces with more sophisticated and useful models that take into account, like in traditional banking - the status, assets and future cashflows of the borrowers.

使用加密货币作为抵押品应该被更复杂和有用的模型所取代，这些模型应该像传统银行业务一样，考虑到借款人的地位、资产和未来现金流。

This is what we are wrestling with in ZILD - and we aim to provide the tool for this to the global DeFi space.

这就是我们在ZILD中努力奋斗的目标-我们旨在为全球DeFi领域提供此工具。

ALLEN：ok thanks Alex to answer.As I have previously discussed with Alex,I know you are developing a DeFi ecosystem together with 24 other team members, so Alex, in your opinion, what it taks to make a DeFi product successful ?

好的，谢谢Alex的回答。正如我之前与Alex讨论的那样，我知道您正在与24个其他团队成员一起开发DeFi生态系统，因此，Alex认为，使DeFi产品成功的关键是什么？

Alex Nikolaev：Ha - that's pretty easy to answer.Like with any other project or business - the business is successful if is solves a real problem in the real world for a large number of people.Because in this way such project produces a lot of value, and part of this value the project can extract.Why DeFi is on such a rise now?Because it solves real problems!it helps to eliminate a lot of intermediaries and make huge numbers of different financial operations more efficient.basically, the good DeFi project would build infrastructure for solving the same problems that current commercial and investment banks are solving for us.

这个非常容易回答，和其他项目一样，如果一个Defi项目能够解决现实世界中很多人的实际问题，那么这个项目就是成功的。为什么现在Defi的发展势头如此迅猛？因为它解决了真正的问题,它帮助消除了很多中介机构，让大量不同的金融业务变得更加高效。基本上，一个好的DeFi项目将会建立基础设施去解决当前商业和投资银行正在为我们解决的相同问题.

ALEX Egorov:I know it for a fact, because I worked in traditional banking and finance for more than 15 years.Maybe not everybody remembers, but Satoshi Nakamoto invented Bitcoin to solve the digital payments problem using the peer-to-peer networks,This innovation spurred the growth of very successful projects, which started to eliminate middlemen, reduce the counterparty risk and create infrastructure for decentralized finances.

我知道这是事实，因为我在传统银行和金融业工作了15年以上，也许不是每个人都记得，但中本聪发明了比特币利用点对点网络去解决数字支付问题。这项创新促进了非常成功的行业的增长，这些项目开始消除中间机构，降低了交易对手的风险，并建立了分散化财务的基础架构。

ALLEN：Alex, as you are at the forefront of the DeFi field, in your opinion, What problems DeFi projects need to solve currently?

Alex，您认为DeFi项目目前需要解决哪些问题？

Alex Nikolaev:Good question, Allen, because quite a few problems and obstacles obviously prevent us from the more smooth and fast growth!

The main roadblocks that Defi projects are facing now, from the top of my list:first of all - the lack of interoperability between the blockchains.

We need to all the DeFi tools to work across all blockchains — public and private decentralized ledger ecosystems. Not how it is now — where Ethereum is taking 90% of all volumes.

ALLEN，这是一个很好的问题，因为很多问题和障碍显然使我们无法平稳，快速地增长！

Defi项目现在面临的主要障碍：首先，区块链之间缺乏互操作性。我们需要所有的DEFI工具在区块链上工作——公共和私有的分布式生态系统，而不是现在这样——Ethereum占据了所有交易量的90%。

The second largest problem is the compatibility of legal systems in different jurisdictions.Legal system is the infrastructure for doing business in the real world, which describe and determine relationships between the people and companies. 

And we need to have connectors of legal systems, which define real-world business operations, with blockchain and crypto-assets operations.

第二大问题是不同司法管辖区的法律制度的兼容性。法律制度是在现实世界中开展业务的基础结构，它描述并确定人与公司之间的关系。而且我们需要与法律体系建立联系，这将定义现在现实世界中区块链、加密资产和金融交易之间的关系。

I would say the third biggest on my list is code security,because the more money there is in a protocol, the more it’s prone to attacks and the higher the price of the mistake is.

DeFi, unfortunately is a very crime-prone area, which is a target for a lot of hackers from the entire world now, and it’s quite a big obstacle for development.

我说第三大问题的是代码安全。因为在一些协议里的钱越多，越容易受到攻击，犯错的代价也越高。Defi是一个非常容易犯罪的领域，这对发展来说是相当大的障碍。

ALEX Egorov:And I would also add, one of biggest challenges, which I see - is the convenience of use - the UI and UX in Defi space are sometimes super complex, and we should work on that together. To improve the simplicity for the common users.

我还要补充一点，我看到的最大挑战之一就是使用的便利性-Defi的项目中的用户操作和用户体验有时会非常复杂，我们应该共同努力，为了提高普通用户的简便性。

ALLEN：DeFi promises high interest but at the same time it involves high risks as well, what’s your view on this?

DeFi承诺高利息，但同时也涉及到高风险，对此你有什么看法？

ALEX Egorov:Let me reply, as I spent hundreds of hours sitting on the risk committees of banks.Risk/return is the basics of investment decisions.why would there be a high return, if the risk is low?..

让我来回答，因为我在银行的风险委员会工作了很久。风险/收益是投资决策的基础知识。如果风险很低，为什么会有高收益呢？

High return and low risk don't exist together for long — they right away gets balanced or arbitraged out by the market players.But only in one way - if the low risk is obvious for the big number of players.

高回报和低风险共存的时间并不会很长，因为它马上就会被市场参与者平衡或套利掉.但只有一种情况——如果低风险对于大数玩家来说是显而易见的。

So DeFi is bringing today an amazing opportunity for making money for those who are technically skilled and smart, because they can tell if the technology of one protocol is better than the other, if a project’s smart contract is good, or built in a strange way, or if a project promises a lot or looks like a scam.

for those tech-savvy players, DeFi poses a great value, because they can gage the risk and understand it, and the returns they can count on are much higher than in traditional finance

所以DeFi今天给那些技术高手带来了机会，因为他们可以判断出一个协议的技术是否比另一个协议好，一个项目的智能合约是否构建得很奇怪，或者一个项目看起来像一个骗局。

所以对于那些懂技术的玩家来说，DeFi就有了很大的价值，因为他们可以把控风险，了解风险，他们得到的回报比传统金融要高很多。

I think, the high returns in the DeFi space are absolutely justified for now.because of multiple different positive factors.

like, the speed of DeFi infrastructure develoment, networks effect, enabled through an increase in liquidity, also protocols reaching product-market fit, developers' tools, interoperability of blockchains and deeper application throughout the online ecosystem globally.

我认为，目前DeFi领域的高回报是绝对合理的，因为有大量积极因素。例如，通过提高流动性来实现快速发展DeFi基础设施、网络效应、达到市场适应性的协议、开发人员的工具、区块链的互操作性以及遍及全球的整个在线生态系统的更深层次的应用。

ALLEN：Currently most of the successful DeFi projects are about lending, do you think lending would be the major opportunity in DeFi? If not, what other opportunities?

目前成功的DeFi项目大多是关于借贷的，您认为借贷会是DeFi的主要机会吗？如果不是，还有哪些机会？

Alex Nikolaev:You are completely right: many Defi projects today are about lending, and this is one of the problems that commercial banks are solving today for us.and, by the way, this is how these banks made billions of dollars。

but DeFi is taking these solutions a step further - it provides for easy and non-custodial deposits and loans, essentially, banking the unbanked.

你说的完全正确--今天很多Defi项目都是关于借贷的，这也是今天商业银行为我们解决的问题之一。顺便说一下，这就是这些银行赚了数十亿美元的方式。是DeFi将这个解决方案又向前推进了一步--它提供了简单的、非托管的存款和贷款，本质上是将没有银行的人变成了银行。

ALEX Egorov:But the opportunities lie, first of all in the sphere of solving the problem of centralization of the exchanges.as we all know, almost all the financial transactions today need to go through centralized custodial service providers because of counterparty risk.

但是，机会首先在于解决中心化交易所问题,众所周知，由于交易对手的风险，当今几乎所有的金融交易都需要通过集中的托管服务提供并进行。

The institutions that provide centralized custodial services charge a custodial and transaction fee, and the fee can be up to 3-5% for OTC transactions - outrageous!also you need to trust that the centralized exchange will execute your exchange orders correctly, and then that they will honor your withdrawal requests.

提供集中式保管服务的机构收取保管和交易费，而场外交易的费用可能高达3-5％-太离谱了！同时，您需要相信中心化交易所会正确执行您的交易指令，然后他们会的兑现你的提现需求，但总是会有交易方的风险存在。

So there's always a counterparty risk involved!!DeFi brought us non-custodial exchanges, where smart contracts - essentially, the programming code- hold assets from both parties in escrow.

也就是说，当你与某一方进行交易时，保证资产会被转移给对方，这种 "非托管交易 "的成本几乎为零。

One more exciting niche, where DeFi must prove to be very efficient is the financial derivatives space. The financial system needs decentralized fungible and smart derivatives! A lot of problems in the traditional financial system are occuring due to the fact that the risk of financial derivatives and different structured notes from different financial institutions are very hard to estimate - these securities are non-fungible.

DeFi必须证明在金融衍生品市场是非常高效的。 金融系统需要去中心化的和智能衍生工具！由于很难估计金融衍生工具和来自不同金融机构的不同结构化票据的风险，因此在传统金融系统中出现了许多问题-这些证券是不可替代的,具有相同货币，相同利率，相同期限和其他参数的相同证券-将会有根本的不同，并且是不可替代的。

And it hampers the liquidity of this whole traditional securities market, making the securities less attractive and more expensive.These derivatives are bound to be totally fungible and lacking the counteragent risk.

而且它阻碍了这个整个市场的流动性，使得证券的吸引力下降，价格上升。而这些衍生品必然是完全可以互换的，缺少交易对手风险。

But basically, in building DeFi ecosystem, we are barely scratching the surface and everyone who is building the infrastructure for the decentralized money and finance are building a more efficient, equal and sucessful future.

但基本上Defi我们只是勉强做到了表面，每一个为去中心化的货币金融建设基础设施的人，都在建设一个更加高效、平等、幸福的未来。

ALLEN：ok，Thanks Alex， I also believe,the last question,Alex，Do you think DeFi is a Zero-sum Game? Do you think DeFi would boost the crypto industry?

好的，谢谢Alex，我也相信，最后一个问题，Alex，你认为DeFi是一个零和博弈吗？你认为DeFi会促进加密行业的发展吗？

Alex Nikolaev:I'm not a believer in Zero-Sum games if it relates to complex systems. And DeFi is not a Zero-sum game as well as he financial and economic systems are not.

如果涉及复杂系统，我不相信零和博弈,DeFi不是，金融和经济系统也不是。

We have talked about the efficiency of DeFi for solving important real-life problems, and the breakthrough technologies and sectors of economy attract extra funds and assets, by promising to produce a lot of value. At some point these technologies grow too fast and create inefficiencies, which get some investors to lose their money.that happened in the past with internet, social media, telecom, cryptocurrencies and pretty much every technology that we are using now.

我们已经讨论了DeFi解决重要的现实生活效率问题，突破性的技术和经济部门会吸引额外的资金和资产。在某些时候，它们增长过快，造成效率低下，这让一些投资者损失了他们的钱。这种情况发生在互联网、社交媒体、电信、加密货币以及我们现在使用的几乎所有技术上。

DeFi technologies can eliminate inefficiencies in quite a few different finacial sectors, which we discussed today, and that what creates it's value.

DeFi技术可以消除相当多不同金融领域的低效率，这也是我们今天讨论的，和它的价值所在。

I also want to point out, please don't forget that cryptocurrencies market cap today is only 300 billion.

我想说的是，请不要忘记，加密货币今天的市值只有3000亿，而且一定会增长！Defi一定会增长。

To put you into the context, the Gold, as a commodity, alone is worth 3 trillion dollars.So, gold alone has 10 times higher market cap than all crypto created in the world by now.

给你说一下，光是黄金作为一种商品，就价值3万亿美元。所以光是黄金的市值就比世界上所有的加密货币高10倍。

At the same time there's an opinion and researches that predict that 10% of global gross domestic product may be generated on blockchain platforms in 5 to 10 years from now.And this is an equivalent of 8 trillion dollars per year.

同时有一种观点认为，5到10年后，全球国内生产总值的10%可能会在区块链平台上产生。这相当于8万亿美元。

ALLEN：I think so，For Defi, I believe it is only in its infancy, and it needs a long time to develop, but I believe that defi will become more efficient and convenient in the future.

So I am also very excited that I can meet defi in this era and look forward to the development of defi.

我想是这样的，对于DeFi来说，我相信它只是处于起步阶段，还需要很长的时间来发展，但我相信DeFi在未来会变得更加高效和便捷。所以我也很兴奋，能在这个时代遇见defi，期待defi的发展。

B·Talk专访

B·Talk系列直播AMA由Bzone发起专访栏目，近距离对话区块链行业内大咖、专家学者、创业者、KOL等，共同交流分享行业热点、知识科普与项目创新，旨在成为区块链爱好者、技术专家、投资人、创业者以及行业KOL进行高效社交的互动平台